"Raiders of the Lost Ark" (1981) with Ben Carpenter & Nicholas Pepin

Tim Williams: In 1981, a legendary partnership between George Lucas and Steven Spielberg brought a new kind of hero to the big screen. He wasn't a superhero or a space traveler. He was an archeology professor in a fedora who was just as likely to get punched in the face as he was to find a priceless relic. From the jungles of Peru to the desert sands of Egypt, Indiana Jones took us on a relentless hunt for the most dangerous artifact in history. It was a film that perfectly blended the cliffhanger serials of the 1930s with the cutting edge practical effects of the 80s giving us a bolder chase for the ages and a finale that literally melted our minds. So dust off the fedora, grab your bullwhip and avoid the snake pit as Ben Carpenter, Nicholas Pepin and I discuss Raiders of the Lost Ark from 1981 on this episode of the 80s flick flashback podcast. Welcome to the show everyone. I am your host, Tim Williams. Joining me in the map room today are two guys who know exactly how to handle a priceless cult classic without setting off any poison darts. First up, he's a man who knows it's not the years, it's the mileage. Please welcome back to the show, Mr. Ben Carpenter. How you doing, Ben?

Ben Carpenter: ⁓ thank you. I'm doing well. I would say it's the years and the mileage, though, for me.

Tim Williams: You can get both. And back again is the host of Pop Culture Roulette and a man who knows never grab a medallion out of the fire with his bare hands. It's Nicholas Pepin. How you doing, Nicholas?

Nicholas Pepin: I don't know that I know that.

Tim Williams: Hahaha!

Nicholas Pepin: Well, you know, I did the last two. Well, I did number two and number three, so I guess it's time to actually go back around and do number one, so...

Tim Williams: Right. So, uh, you may be one of our, some of our day one listeners who have been here from the beginning, but six years ago, I started the podcast and Raiders of the Lost Ark was the very first episode that we did, but we've come such a long way and I've been thinking about, you know, all the old episodes and how I was trying to figure things out as we were going along. And I wanted to. possibly re-record some of our first season episodes. And so that's what we're doing here. So like Nicholas said, he was on our Temple of Doom episode, our Last Dressade episode, and now he is joining us for the Raiders of the Lost Ark. so ⁓ we're going back and so this is the first episode or kind of like recording of an episode that we did. back six years ago. for those of you heard the very first episode we did, which was me and Jeff Tinkle, who's never been on the show again since then. How you doing, Jeff? Sorry, I haven't had you back. But I was still trying to figure out the show. Now I think the format is where I like it. So let's go back and do some of those big movies that we covered in the first season and doing it again. So this is Raiders of Lost Ark, revisited somewhat in this episode, but I'm glad to have Nicholas and Ben. to talk about this one. This is going to be a fun one. So, it's great to have the team together before we start digging. have to know if you're standing in that temple or you swap in the idle for a bag of sand, or you just run in for the exit the second you see a cobweb.

Nicholas Pepin: You I was watching it last night and I was thinking, man, if I'm Alfred Molina, I am out way before he finally dipped. Like, I'm just like, I'm not sure I entered that cave, let alone like the second we hit the first couple traps, you know what, ain't worth it, I'm out.

Tim Williams: Yeah Right, wait before he... ⁓ Right, right. What about you, Ben?

Ben Carpenter: ⁓ Well, I mean it's a nice idle if you can get it, if you can get your hands on it. So, I don't know, could be worth the poison darts.

Tim Williams: If you can get it right, right. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just amazed that he was like, he could look at a gold ⁓ statue or whatever and in his mind be able to calculate how much sand that actually in a bag it's actually gonna weigh. anyway, ⁓ lots of questions that never got answered as I rewatched it today and that's okay. All right, let's go to our regular format. You know how I do it. So gentlemen, we'll start with Ben. When did you see Raiders of the Lost Ark for the first time?

Ben Carpenter: Yesterday. I was unfamiliar with this film. No. Well, I don't remember a specific, I don't remember seeing it for the first time because I remember seeing it multiple times in the theater. ⁓ I do remember going to see it once. ⁓ It was, I think it was over a year after it came out. I mean, this played in the theaters for that long.

Tim Williams: No you didn't. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah

Ben Carpenter: and ⁓ it was over a year and I guess there were some family, extended family members who hadn't gotten to see it yet or something. So we went like 20 of us and in my family carpooled to this theater ⁓ to see it and I do remember that. I don't even know if that theater is still there anymore but.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, yeah, saw it lots of times in the theater.

Tim Williams: What about you, Nicholas?

Nicholas Pepin: Well, I am not that young, but I'm definitely not old enough to have seen this one in the theaters. I genuinely think I did not see this one until after I saw Last Crusade. I don't remember, I can't, but I also can't promise you that I know it was VHS, I know it was a rental.

Tim Williams: Ha ha ha. Okay, alright.

Nicholas Pepin: I don't know if this is one of those that my parents would have watched ahead of time and been like, yeah, we're not showing them this one just yet, especially because of the ending. ⁓ But yeah, I know that I saw it later and I have a distinct memory that I didn't see it until after I saw Last Crusade and was like, wow, this is a really good movie. I want to see the other ones now.

Tim Williams: Mm hmm. OK, yeah, I'm kind of like Ben, like I don't have a distinct memory of seeing it in the theater, but I remember going to see I remember going to see ⁓ Temple of Doom in the theater and definitely seeing Alas! Crusade the theater. But I remember the VHS scene like friends having the VHS copy and watching it at their house. I remember being on like cable a lot. But I want to say that I saw it in the theater, I just don't remember. And it might've been either a re-release or like you said, like it was much later when it came out. yeah, I mean, we were big Star Wars fans, Harrison Ford fans. But it's so ingrained in my memory of like one of those, it's just, it's part of my childhood. Like we talked about a lot of the movies here was like trying to remember when I saw it the first time was like trying to remember like when you took your first breath. Like I know I did it. I just don't remember when the first time it was. So how long has it been since you rewatched it before rewatching it for the podcast? For those that did rewatch it for the podcast.

Ben Carpenter: you

Nicholas Pepin: ⁓ I mean, it's been a minute. I, you know, it's one of those like, I, I, probably rewatched it a couple years ago when I was rewatching Temple of Doom and Last Crusade. I know I played a lot of the Lego Indiana Jones game, so sometimes I get, you know, kind of conflated into whether or not I watched the movie again, or I've just spent that much time playing the video game.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: But yeah, mean, it's not one that I don't watch. I don't watch it near as much as I should, but you know.

Tim Williams: Ha ha ha ha.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, I saw it. I saw it a couple of years ago as well. I mean, it's one of those movies that I don't think I've ever gone more than a couple of years without seeing it, without watching it. ⁓ You know, there's always some kid or, you know, one of my wife's little cousins or whatever who hasn't seen it before. I'm like, ⁓ let's pop it on and watch. I'll watch it with you. So, yeah, I've seen it countless times.

Tim Williams: Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, I know I watched it again back in 2020 when we started the podcast. I think I want to say I rewatched all of them again. When dial of death before dial of destiny came out a couple of years ago. So that's probably the last time I sat down, like sat down and watched it, but they run the Indiana Jones movies on Paramount channel, they run that a lot of weekends or a lot of holidays. So if it's on, I'm going to sit and watch. at least 30 to 45 minutes of it depending on at what point I come in. So yeah, so it's definitely one that I've watched a lot and continue to watch kind of on a regular rotation. alright well before Indy ever set foot in that temple there was a story origin and pre-production. I've got five questions about how this legendary character was born. Your job is simple. Tell me if the history I'm giving you belongs in a museum or if it's just a tall tale. Alright gentlemen, are you ready to choose wisely? Let's play ⁓ Risky so you guys know how we play the game. give you five true or false questions. You guys can ⁓ collaborate a guess and you know, there's nobody to kind of break the tie. So you have to come to a consensus and we'll see how well you do. ⁓ This you know, this movie is pretty well known. So a lot of this, think you might, might do pretty good on it. So, all right, here we go. Number one, true or false. The idea for Indiana Jones was first pitched by George Lucas to Steven Spielberg. while they were building a sandcastle on a beach in Hawaii. True or false?

Nicholas Pepin: ⁓ I know they were in Hawaii because George Lucas likes to run away when his movies premiere. I don't know about the sandcastle part.

Tim Williams: Hahaha

Ben Carpenter: This sounds, the sandcastle, even the sandcastle part sounds a little bit familiar with me, to me. So I will go with true, yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: Okay, let's go for it. Let's go true.

Tim Williams: All right. All right. You are correct. As Nicholas said, during the opening weekend of Star Wars in 77, Lucas was hiding out in Hawaii to avoid the stress of the premiere. And when Spielberg mentioned he always wanted to direct a James Bond movie, Lucas told him, I've got something better and pitched the adventures of Indiana, Indiana Smith at that point was not Indiana Jones. So yeah. I don't know if they're truly building a sandcastle on the beach, but that's how the question was presented. So. Don't get too caught up in the details. Nicholas likes to make sure it's exactly correct. ⁓ Number two, true or false? The name Indiana was chosen because George Lucas wanted a name that sounded rugged and midwestern, eventually settling on the name of a city he saw on a map of the United States. True or false?

Nicholas Pepin: that's false because because because he named him after a dog and then by the third movie they worked that storyline into the into the movie

Ben Carpenter: response.

Tim Williams: That is false, yes.

Ben Carpenter: See

Tim Williams: Absolutely, absolutely correct. Yep. It was the name of George Lucas's beloved Alaskan Malibut. Yep. So you that was going to be easy one for you. All right. Number three is a two for two so far in the very first story conferences, Lucas and Spielberg envisioned Indiana Jones as a wealthy playboy nightclub archaeologist who used his findings to fund a lavish lifestyle. True or false?

Nicholas Pepin: Do like that one's true? I

Ben Carpenter: I I've never heard that. That seems a little out there.

Nicholas Pepin: because it's closer to the James Bond thing that he wanted to do.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, I know it was originally conceived as a James Bond style movie. Okay, I'll go along with you.

Nicholas Pepin: I feel like that's true. could be... Alright, let's do it.

Tim Williams: In Nicholas, trust it is true early transcripts of the meetings show the initially discussed Indy being a Burt Reynolds type quote unquote character who spent his nights in tuxedos. It was later decided to make him a more rugged dirt under the fingernails professor to ground the character. All right, they're going for a clean sweep. Got two more see if they can do it. Number four, true or false. Danny Devito was the original choice to play the role of Sala. but he had to turn it down due to his filming schedule for the sitcom Taxi.

Ben Carpenter: sounds a little close to another true fact. That sounds like you might have, you know, think you might have taken a true fact and sort of turned it into a false fact there.

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, that... Yeah, I think that one's false. Yeah, I think... Yeah, I think so. I'm gonna go with you on that one, Ben. I think that one's false.

Tim Williams: And the streak comes to an end. That is true. Spielberg was a huge fan of DeVito, but the scheduling conflict led them to cast John Rhys Davies instead. Davies originally thought the character was written as a shorter comedic type and was surprised he actually got the part. So I don't know if I could have seen that. That would have been a very different Salah if it was Danny DeVito for sure.

Ben Carpenter: you

Nicholas Pepin: would have been a very different solo.

Tim Williams: Yeah. All right. We're still doing good. You're three out of four. Let's see if you can, you know, finish on a high note. five. True or false? The screenplay for Raiders was written by Lawrence Kasdan, who at the time was an unknown writer who got the job after showing Lucas his script for The Empire Strikes Back. True or false?

Ben Carpenter: ⁓ He was not the original writer of Empire Strikes Back. So, but he did write this, but yeah, that the. I believe he came in later on Empire Strikes Back and finished it up after the original writer had started on it. I'll say false.

Tim Williams: What say you, Nicholas?

Nicholas Pepin: I think Ben might be right. I can't remember where Lawrence Kasdan was in this stretch of writing Empire Strikes Back in the George Lucas universe. So yeah, I don't feel good about it, but I think I'm going to go false as well.

Tim Williams: This is why you trust your teammates. It is false. So Ben was right. It was actually the other way around. Lucas hired Kazdin to write Raiders after being impressed by a script for Continental Divide. It was during their work on Raiders that Lucas realized Kazdin was the perfect person to help him finish the script for Empire Strikes Back. all right. Four out of five is not bad. Yeah. Yeah. Good job. All right. Well, let us know how well you did.

Nicholas Pepin: All right, well, four out of five is not bad.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, that's pretty, I'll take it.

Tim Williams: If you are playing along with us, us an email, message or a message on social media. And you can also leave us a comment on YouTube if that's where you're watching the episode. So, all right. Well, let's talk about the cast of a few of these we've talked about already because we've talked about the other two Indiana Jones movies as well. we'll start with, of course, Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones. After making his screen debut in 1966 and early supporting roles in the films American Graffiti in 73 and The Conversation in 74, he achieved global stardom for portraying Han Solo in the space opera film Star Wars, 1977 role he reprised in four subsequent films for the franchise spanning the next four decades. He also received recognition for his portrayal of Rick Deckard in Blade Runner franchise in 82 in 2017. Jack Ryan in the action thriller films, Patriot Games in 92. and clear and present danger in 94. These roles established him as an action hero and one of Hollywood's most bankable stars from the late seventies into the early two thousands. And he's still going strong today. So, of course we all know it's pretty well common knowledge that he was not the first choice for Indiana Jones. Who was the first choice for Indiana Jones?

Nicholas Pepin: See, this is where you got us on this question because the story is that Tom Selleck had originally been cast but he had to drop out because he wasn't able to be there because of the production schedule for Magnum PI. So that's where you got us because we were thinking you were trying to trick us with that, know, because that's the exact same story but Magnum PI, not Taxi.

Tim Williams: Hahaha Mm-hmm. Hahaha ⁓ Right, Yep. So yep, that's right. Steven Spielberg's choice was Tom Selleck. George Lucas didn't want to use Harrison Ford because he had had him in his other movies and he didn't want to be compared to, ⁓ gosh, it just left me. Scorsese, yeah, of having, was it Robert De Niro was in all of his movies. So he didn't want to have Harrison Ford be like his Robert De Niro, but.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: Scorsese.

Tim Williams: But Selick couldn't take the role because he was committed to Magna Pi, even though the series did not go into production until Raiders filming had already wrapped. And Selick was actually in fact in Hawaii waiting for the series to start as the final scenes that were filmed in the opening sequence were being shot in Hawaii. So he was actually there while they were filming ⁓ Raiders of Lost Ark. But he did do an episode called Legend of the Lost Art in 1988, which parodied Raiders of Lost Ark complete with hat whip and booby traps. So he got to live out some of that fantasy of being Indiana Jones. Yeah. But I would say like in 88, think Magnapia was definitely on his way out ⁓ kind of past its prime at that point.

Ben Carpenter: This is consolation prize.

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, I I- And I like Tom Selleck, but I still think that Harrison Ford was the right choice, ultimately.

Tim Williams: ⁓ for sure. Yeah, for sure.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, I mean, for George to feel that way, I mean, you can do a lot worse than to have Harrison Ford be in all your movies.

Tim Williams: Right. Right. Right. Exactly. So and there's even like even watching it again today, there's a few scenes where I'm like he's him and Han Solo are so alike in certain aspects. Like that was a very Han Solo thing for him to do, which I thought was interesting. But filming those two pretty close together, I mean, coming right out of Empire Strikes Back into ⁓ Raiders, I'm sure it was very Han Solo was very much still. in his mind. But I agree. Harrison Ford is the Indiana Jones. There's no one else that could have done that role.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, it's hard to imagine anyone else and it's hard to imagine him being named Indiana Smith as well. That just does not work.

Tim Williams: Yeah. I don't know. That was, yeah, that had to be one of the, we'll just put this here. We'll change it later. had to be kind of a thing. So, okay. Then we got Karen Allen as Marion Ravenwood. She made her film debut in the comedy Animal House in 78, which soon followed by a small role in Woody Allen's romantic comedy drama, Manhattan in 79 and a co-lead role in Philip Kaufman's coming of age film, The Wanderers in 79. She went.

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah.

Tim Williams: She also played opposite Al Pacino in Cruising in 80. She, a leader, co-starred in Shoot the Moon in 82, Starman in 84, and Scrooge with Bill Murray in 1988, which, of course, we talked about her in that episode. Alan actually expressed some disappointment in the film. Although her performance had provided many new opportunities, she lamented that her character had been motivated more by her relationship with Jones and money than with her father and his obsession with the art. Which until I read that, didn't really think about that, but that is true. Like when going back and rewatching it, like the reason that Indy went to her was because of her relationship with her father. But once after they have that discussion in the bar, like her father has really never mentioned again for the rest of the movie. Like that's not really, it doesn't seem to be her motivation at all. So.

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, they... Yeah, because it was like... It wasn't part of it, like he was missing. And they... I don't remember them ever bringing it back up. And I don't know why it never occurred to me until I was watching it last night that I was like, wait a minute. Like, I just kept waiting for them to like find him somewhere. And I'm like, they... they never do.

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah. Yeah Mm-hmm. Right. Because who they find in... we're jumping. Because who they find in Crystal Skull is not her father, but it's like one of her... is like her brother or a cousin or something? Yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: It's been a long... I have watched Raiders of the Lost Ark many times since I've watched Crystal Skull.

Ben Carpenter: I think I've heard.

Tim Williams: Yeah, no, that yeah, yeah, I gotta say, yeah. I don't, I'm not even sure if I watched that one before, before preparing for Dial of Destiny. So yeah. ⁓ so I was trying to, I was trying to think of that when I was watching it today. I was like, who was the guy they found that was, you know, was about the aliens, but anyway, so, ⁓ so of course always go for the rumor mill of who ⁓ other actresses that audition for the role. So here are some names on the list. Jane Seymour, Barbara Hershey.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, I've erased that one from my memory, I believe.

Tim Williams: Mary Steenburgen, Amy Irving, Dee Wallace, Valerie Bertinelli, Patty D'Arbenville, Stephanie Zimballist, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Deborah Winger were all considered for the role of Marion. Sean Young was used as Marion in screen test with Tom Selleck. Tim Matheson and John Shea were used for Karen Allen's screen test. Young would later star opposite Ford and Blade Runner in 82 and Wallace would co-star in Steven Spielberg's ET The Extraterrestrial with Peter Coyote who also read for the role of Indiana Jones. So pretty interesting there. I like Karen Allen. thought she was, I think she was good for the role. I, anybody in that, in that list you think would have been a good runner up?

Nicholas Pepin: There are couple of them that maybe could have pulled it off, you know, it's so indelibly Karen Allen at this point. you know, like I just, it's hard to envision anybody else, but you know, it's been an ongoing problem, I think, with the eighties movies that we've talked about on many other episodes. It's the female characters, so not poorly written, but so generically written that I think like,

Ben Carpenter: Yeah.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Pepin: If Michelle Pfeiffer or Barbara Hershey or Mary Steenburgen had done it, like, I don't know how different it would have been. You know, I mean, it's a bet. It's they wrote the female character better for Raiders of the Lost Ark than they did for Temple of Doom, which I know we had a long conversation about.

Tim Williams: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, Marianne is definitely a stronger, an example of a stronger female character from this era, I would say.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ben Carpenter: But yeah, I could picture maybe Debra Winger. Maybe it's just because they're both brunettes or whatever. But there's something, I could see that.

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ Yeah, well, yeah, she had Deborah Winger has that kind of like a tough she's kind of like a you know a tougher person I think Valerie Bertinelli is kind of the one I think would have probably bought a little spunk has kind of that same kind of spunk that Karen Allen has

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, it's odd that they were considering so many TV actors in a time when that was not there was not much crossover from TV to movies. It was sort of frowned upon that you know, you're bringing in TV people, right?

Tim Williams: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, you were either one or the other. Now it's, you you want to be on TV and movies is just like a bonus.

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting to think about, I agree. I like Karen Allen. I thought she was great in the role. Very feisty. So I think she's and I was going to ask this question, unfortunately, we didn't talk about this when I recorded the first time, but I'm just kind of thinking about the comparisons we have Han Solo to Indiana Jones. You think Marion is a little like Princess Leia in the sense of like strong female lead that has this romantic bond with Harrison Ford's character.

Nicholas Pepin: I mean, in a way, I mean, you know, I guess in a way, you know, it's, it's, kind of, you know, they start a little antagonistic at the beginning and by the end it's, it's a, you know, a little bit more. you know, the other, with this one, there's clearly way more backstory that like we're not privy to, like, it's almost like this should be rated as a Lost Ark part two. Cause like there's, there's whole history between Marion and

Tim Williams: Or am I stretching? Mm-hmm. True, true. Hehehehehe

Nicholas Pepin: indie that we aren't privy to. We kind of pick up context clues where like Han and Leia meet for the first time and then you

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Right, Yeah. And you don't even get to that until like Star Wars was that was not really established. It's very much established in Empire Strikes Back that the attraction between the two. Excuse me. So, yeah, I could see this one was a little bit more. I just I'm just thinking about strong female characters and that bond with like the Han Solo, Indiana Jones type. So but.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah.

Tim Williams: I think they're both different. I just thought it was interesting kind of comparison. anyway, we won't Miranda there. Miranda? Meander? Meander, that's the word. Meander.

Ben Carpenter: Meander. We won't do either.

Tim Williams: Yeah, words come sometimes. All right, so we got Paul Freeman as Renee Bellocque. That's always one of my favorite like villain names, Bellocque, especially the way Harrison Ford says it. Internationally, he's known for playing this role in Raiders of the Lost Ark. He also played the evil wine baron Gustav Riebman on season four of the soap opera Falcon Crest from 84 to 85. He was also the supervillain. He likes playing villains. Super villain Ivan Ooze and Mighty Morphin Power Rangers the movie in 1995, which I obviously didn't see. His other credits include Moorlaing... I was not a Power Rangers person. Sorry, that's a good problem. His other credits include Moorlaing in 2001, When I'm 64 in 2004, Hot Fuzz, which is one of my favorites in 2007, and Hard Boiled Sweets in 2012.

Ben Carpenter: What? You didn't see my... No, I'm kidding. Sorry, please go ahead. I don't remember them in hot fuzz.

Tim Williams: I just know him as Billock. Yeah, I think it's a small role. I think he's one of the theater people. think it's been a while since I watched that for hot fuzz, but that's definitely one of my, one of my favorites. ⁓ Great movie. Any thoughts on Paul Freeman before we move on?

Nicholas Pepin: He was a serviceable villain, I mean.

Tim Williams: Ha ha ha ha.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah.

Tim Williams: All right, sounds good. What works for me? Yeah, he was Belloc. John Rhys Davies as Sala. He was introduced to a new generation of fans in the blockbuster trilogy, Lord of the Rings, in the role of Gimli the dwarf. He has also had leading roles in Victor Victoria in 82, The Living Daylights in 87, and King Solomon's Minds in 85, which of course was very Indiana Jones like. Oh, and I was going to say, we're like talking about Danny DeVito as Sala. You know, he had his, you know,

Ben Carpenter: I that's, yeah, he was bellic.

Tim Williams: Romancing the Stone, they say, has given, you know, somewhat inspired by Indiana Jones. So guess he got to kind of play a little bit of that type of role, even very different, but.

Nicholas Pepin: Well, and you said that John Rhys Davies was afraid that they had wanted him to be a smaller character and then he went ahead and did Lord of the Rings where... where he was a small character. Well, I would say one of my all-time favorite John Rhys Davies roles is on that show Sliders.

Tim Williams: Yeah. Yeah, he was a small character. Very true. Yeah, ⁓ yeah. Yep. I had that listed as well. So from the Fox and that was like the mid 90s, early to mid 90s when that came on.

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, early mid 90s and then it moved over to Syfy channel for a couple seasons before.

Tim Williams: ⁓ right, right. Yeah. I don't think I watched it was on sci-fi, but I watched it when I was on Fox. So yeah, that was a good one. All right. Moving along. I'm not doing a full like we're covering the hit, the highlights here. Denholm Elliott as Marcus Brody in the sixties. He appeared in King Rat in 65 and Alfie in 66. His he won a BAFTA Best Supporting Actor award for his role as the butler in Trading Places that he threw, which we've covered already. and followed with awards for his roles in a private function in 84 and defense of the realm at 85, as well as receiving an Academy Award nomination for a room with the view in 86. Marcus Brody, one of my favorite characters. He's much more fun in Last Crusade, yeah, they definitely give him a lot more to do in that one, but he's still good in this role. But he'll always be the butler in trading places to me as well.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah. Last crusade. I was about to the exact same thing. Like, yeah. Right. I like the line, care to whet your whistle, Marcus? ⁓ What does he say? ⁓ I'd rather spit in your face, but since I haven't any spit.

Tim Williams: Hahaha Yeah, yeah, that was the last crusade. Yeah, was a good line. All right. And then Nicholas mentioned already Alfred Molina appears as Jones Traderist Guide, Satipo, Satipo, Satipo, think is right. And this was his film debut. His other notable films include Pick Up Your Ears, 87, Boogie Nights in 97, Chocolat in 2000, The Da Vinci Code 2006.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah.

Tim Williams: He also voiced characters in Rango, Monsters University, Ralph Briggs Internet and Frozen 2. And of course, he was Doc Ock, Otto Octavius in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2, as well as Spider-Man No Way Home in 2020. Yep. This was his film debut, which I think, you know, after seeing him and all the things I've seen later, like when I went back and watch this probably like 20 years ago, didn't realize I was off from Marlena until, you know, like, man, but yeah, he has.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, it is kind of weird that he makes it only like six minutes into the movie.

Nicholas Pepin: What?

Tim Williams: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: Well that's one of those like you go back and you watch it and you're like, he was in this movie? Because when he did it he was nobody. I mean he was just a glorified extra at this point, you know?

Tim Williams: Right, right, exactly. Right, Mm-hmm. Right, right. But he has such a, I mean, but he has such a meaning, not meaning, a memorable part. Like, even though I didn't know that's who he was, like, that's a character that I always remembered from the movie because that opening sequence is so fantastic anyway. So yeah, definitely a memorable character for his first role. So good on him. And then I will mention Pat Roach as the huge bald, mustached Nazi mechanic who fist fights Indy until he gets chopped up by the plane propeller. He also plays several other roles in Raiders. And in fact, he appears in every entry of the Indiana Jones movie. Trotology? Is that Tetra? They put a word in here I've never seen before. ⁓ Yeah. What is the, I'll change it. Yeah. I'm going to change it.

Ben Carpenter: But there's five now.

Tim Williams: In fact, appears in every film entry of the Indiana Jones franchise. He is Steven Spielberg's preferred go-to person when Spielberg needs an oath, an ogre or some oversized person causing trouble. yes, Indiana Jones fights him in Raiders of the Lost Ark, again in Temple of Doom and again in Last Crusade. And then I think again in, I know he was in the most recent one, I think, or maybe that was, maybe he wasn't in the last one, but yeah.

Ben Carpenter: I never realized that he was in any other ones. never spotted him.

Tim Williams: Yeah, I they always they disguise him to like look different. Yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: day.

Ben Carpenter: Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Pepin: They throw a mask on him or a hat or something just to make him look different. He was one of the big Nazis that he was fighting in the last crusade as well. Like on the tank, I think.

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it is the guy on the tank. Yeah. And last crusade. So, yeah. And he's the yeah. Yeah. He's the big guard in Temple of Doom when he's free and the kids, the child child slaves that he fights in the caves. Pretty sure that's the same one. But ⁓ but we just recently ⁓ covered Clash of the Titans and Pat Roach was in that movie as well. So two for two recently. Alright, anybody else in the cast that I didn't cover that you or didn't mention you wanted to mention or cover?

Nicholas Pepin: No. ⁓ there wasn't...

Ben Carpenter: Who is the guy who owns the plane at the beginning?

Tim Williams: That is the producer Frank Marshall. Yeah, yeah.

Ben Carpenter: Right, okay, that's it. I knew it was some kind of cameo or something, yeah.

Tim Williams: Yeah, it was a cameo, yeah. And not like Frank, yeah, not the Frank Marshall that was the director of Penny Marshall's brother. Is that Frank? Gary Marshall. I knew I was gonna get that wrong. As soon as I said it, I like, his name wasn't Frank. Yeah, so Frank Marshall, the producer, not Gary Marshall. yeah. Got my 80s and 90s mixed up. Yep. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks. I don't know.

Nicholas Pepin: Gary Marshall.

Ben Carpenter: married to Kathleen Kennedy, I believe, or it was at least. Are they still married? don't know. Is Frank Marshall even still alive? Okay, well anyway, I digress.

Tim Williams: I don't know. Sorry. Thank you. All right. Let's let's jump into iconic favorite scenes. Boy, this is going to be a tough one to nail down. When someone says to you Raiders of the Lost Ark, what's the first scene that pops in your head? I'll let Nicholas go first on this one.

Nicholas Pepin: I mean, I'm going to take the obvious and just knock it out of the way. The sword fight where he's running through the crowd and the big Arab guys start swinging all the swords around and does all the stuff and then just pulls out his gun and shoots him. That is one of the immediate scenes I think of when I think of Raiders of the Lost Order.

Tim Williams: Right, right. Right. Yup.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, I mean, this is one of those movies that's impossible to pick one. But ⁓ for me, the truck chase sequence, like some of the best stunts ever put on film and the strongest argument against CGI these days and why, like, when you do it for real, it makes it that much more thrilling. So, yeah.

Tim Williams: Yeah. Then we get up. Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. It's so much better. Yeah. I agree 100%. I can't believe you guys left us on the table. The boulder, the rolling boulder at the beginning. Like that is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like I said, I I'm not surprised we all picked a different one because there's so many like iconic scenes in this movie. The snake pit where the Cobra is like face to face with Indiana Jones. ⁓

Nicholas Pepin: It's on my list, that whole cold open.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, well. Yeah.

Tim Williams: the end where they're tied to the pole and everything's happening at the end. yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: Right. I will say I didn't go down and get my DVD copy. I just watched it on Disney Plus because it was just easier. ⁓ man, the special effects on the end just be I don't know if it was just my TV or the digital. They don't hold up as well like in the transfer. I mean, I would say I agree with you that practical is the way to go when it comes to that kind of stuff.

Tim Williams: Mm. Yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: But at the end of the day, think maybe cleaning that up with CGI would have been a little better. But I think that's just the difference between watching something that was made in 1981, trying to watch it on 2026 technology.

Tim Williams: Yeah, it definitely. Yeah.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, well...

Tim Williams: Oh, for sure. Mm hmm.

Ben Carpenter: It does reveal a lot of the flaws that we didn't see in a movie theater in the early 80s.

Tim Williams: ⁓ yeah. But but you know, too, and there were there were certain scenes in this movie that I think even as a kid, even though I knew it was fake, it didn't bother me. And I think that's where I'm going to go on a rant. Welcome to my TED talk. I guess we're missing in today's movies is we wanted to look so perfect or so real that.

Ben Carpenter: You

Tim Williams: We almost ruin it like I want I want to know that it's not real. You know, the guy's face melting as a kid. I knew that wasn't his real face melting. I would that you know, it was it was still freaky to see. Of course it was. But like there's a scene, I think it's during the chase scene where one of the the cars like goes off a cliff and you can tell it's like. You know, superimposed on the background like it's totally fake, but as a kid I didn't care. It was still cool. I think I noticed this time when they drop when he drops the staff down into the Well of Souls, that's an animated staff like they didn't really drop a stick like when I watched today, you could tell that wasn't a real stick that dropped. That might be my first time noticing that, but ⁓ you're going to watch it and I watch I have my Blu-rays, so I watched mine on Blu-ray today when I rewatched it. So which is pretty, pretty decent. But I agree. The effects at the end definitely date it with like those, you know, the

Nicholas Pepin: And now I'm gonna have to watch it again.

Tim Williams: the spirits kind of or ghosts kind of moving, which also I was very Steven Spielberg, like late seventies, early eighties, because, you know, from coming out of a close encounters of the third kind and ⁓ those kinds of things like poltergeist. Yeah. Like it was very, very reminiscent of those, of those effects that they had back then, even, even made me think of, in there's a scene in Conan the barbarian.

Nicholas Pepin: to guys.

Tim Williams: that has kind of like the spirits that look very similar to that, too. So even that's not Spielberg, but still, though, I think that's what dates it, that it's an 80s, like 81. But at the same time, like watching it today, like there are certain parts I'm like. Put this put this movie up against another movie made in 1981 and like the quality of the film, like how good it looks is like night and day like their movies made in 1987 that look. pale in comparison to the quality that you got on the screen. I think, and I'll even say this, like even as a kid, I love this movie, but like as the other ones came out, didn't, I didn't like it as much because I thought it was too slow. Like it kind of drags a little bit in the middle for a, for a tent, a, you know, seven to 10 year old kid, there's slow parts, but watching it again as an adult, like every frame matters, like every part of the story is important. And so even though it's like, yeah, it's a

Ben Carpenter: ⁓ yeah.

Tim Williams: exposition or it's like setting up things later, but it's shot so well and it's told so well. Like it's just, it's just a beautiful movie. And so I think I appreciated some of those scenes a little bit more watching it as an adult.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, I mean, I think they're essential. I was thinking about that today, how so many of the movies, the action movies today, strive to be just a nonstop action, just drive, drive, drive all the way through. And this movie does have those lulls, but I think it benefits from those. it just makes when it...

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Mm-hmm.

Ben Carpenter: you learn a little bit about the character, like the scene on the ship where they're just like, where he's telling Marion where it hurts. It's just a ⁓ little romantic scene. It's funny when she flips the mirror and hits him and stuff like that. ⁓ you need scenes like that, I think, to make the action scenes that much more exciting.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, exactly. Alright, well let's talk about favorite scenes, which will probably still fall under iconic, I'm sure, but any other favorite scenes you wanted to mention?

Nicholas Pepin: I mean, you brought it up, the fight with the big guy before he knocks him into the airplane. know, Pat Roach, like that's a good one.

Tim Williams: Yeah,

Nicholas Pepin: But yeah, mean, it's really hard to parse this movie and say, this is favorite, this is not. I mean, they're just...

Tim Williams: Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Nicholas Pepin: just, mean, ⁓ to bottom. And ⁓ think you're right. think ⁓ older, like you ⁓ maybe what the adults saw in the movie when you were just a kid. ⁓ aren't smart, but.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hahaha.

Ben Carpenter: Hahaha

Nicholas Pepin: You know, granted adults aren't much smarter, but you know, we at least have the patience to appreciate, you know, the exposition like you were talking about. So.

Ben Carpenter: I think even the scene towards the beginning after the opening with the boulder and everything, when we go back to his university and we see that he's sort of like a sex symbol among the students. But then when they take him into the library and they're looking through the books and they're talking about the Ark of the Covenant and the music that's playing sets this very like mysterious tone and sort of just sets

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Right, right. Mm-hmm. Right, right.

Ben Carpenter: It like to me that just like gets gets the audience excited. Like you're going to see some cool stuff here. You know, it's just it's a little quiet scene. They're just talking with like this music under it, but it's it kind of sets the tone for what's to come, I think.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Pepin: And something, I mean, I've seen it before and I've always heard that know, Spielberg and Lucas wanted to do a Bond movie, which I still hold like, if Spielberg's still interested, he should do a Bond movie today. ⁓ But you can see the influence in having the cold open, having the just, you know, the changing the scenes from one location to another, you know, on the other side of the world.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ben Carpenter: Mm-hmm.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Pepin: not necessarily fully explaining how they got there. They were just like, and now we're here. You know, I love the invention of indie travel, you know, where like basically it's just here's a map and we're going to draw a line and you know, yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, right. But you, can definitely see while it's not really a James Bond movie, you can see the influence that James Bond had on the

Tim Williams: Right, right. Yeah, yeah, ⁓ yeah, I love that. Love it. Love it. One of my favorite parts. Yeah, and nobody's ever jet lagged. I love that too. Like they're never tired.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, dotted line.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Pepin: the high point, know, the points of what they were trying to hit.

Tim Williams: Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree. All right. Moving. I'm trying. I'm looking at time too. So, all right. So, uh, oh, going back to, we'll go jump into some trivia here. We'll probably think of some other scenes as we go, but I wanted to mention about the giant boulder. I mentioned earlier, um, on the bonus features DVD, which I guess Nicholas has, he can confirm, uh, sound designer, Ben Burt said it in order to get the proper sound effects for the giant boulder. He and the sound crew tried pushing boulders down a hill, but the sounds they were getting weren't what they were looking for. Later that day as they were leaving in a Honda Civic and coasting down a gravel embankment, Bert noticed that the sound was just what they were looking for. So he grabbed a microphone and held it near one of the Civic's rear tires to record the effect. So if you want to know what the sound of a rolling boulder is, it's a Honda Civic going down a gravel embankment. So I just thought it was pretty, pretty fun. So.

Ben Carpenter: Hahaha

Nicholas Pepin: Oddly enough, I owned a 1981 Honda Civic. I don't remember ever making that noise, but...

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, bit bent.

Tim Williams: Right, right.

Ben Carpenter: You Well, Ben Burt ⁓ is or was, again, not sure if he's still alive, ⁓ a master of just finding. The TIE fighter sound is like a, ⁓ well, I can't remember what it is, but like a. ⁓

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Ben Carpenter: Lightsabers, isn't it? He's like banging on electrical wires or something. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So he found all kinds of sounds just out in the wild and turned them into these iconic movie sound effects.

Tim Williams: Mm hmm. Yeah, they cook right out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen that. Mm hmm. Yeah, just like I love this, the most of the body blow sounds, which I always love, they're just so strong in the movie were actually created by hitting a pile of leather jackets with a baseball bat. So that's where they got that sound from. So I love and then ⁓ I know it will sound which, you know, little sound Easter egg, of course, is when the pilot is cranking up the plane on the water, it makes the same noise as the Millennium Falcon starting up from.

Ben Carpenter: Ha ha

Tim Williams: Star Wars movies. So yeah. Go back and listen. There is there is when one of the and I heard it today because I'm glad you brought it up when it's during the chase scene when ⁓ when Indy's fighting the guy in the front and he goes from like the brake and then hits the gas and the one guy falls on the car behind him. He meets the Wilhelm scream when he jumped when he's going to the car. So I heard it. Yeah.

Ben Carpenter: Alright.

Nicholas Pepin: Okay.

Ben Carpenter: Is there a Wilhelm scream and Raiders? Mm-hmm. Yep, I remember that now.

Tim Williams: So yeah. All right, so some other ⁓ trivia here. Despite having the dream team of George Lucas and Steven Spielberg behind the film, it was initially turned down by every studio in Hollywood. Only after much persuasion did Paramount agree to do it, which seems crazy. ⁓ Let's see, I'm going to skip over a good bit of this.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, I mean, by this point, Spielberg had done Jaws and Close Encounters, and Lucas had two Star Wars movies under his belt, and studios are going, nah, we're good. I mean, what?

Tim Williams: Yeah. Star Wars and Empire. ⁓ What were you thinking?

Nicholas Pepin: I mean these are the same people that like almost every one of them completely passed on Star Wars as well so...

Tim Williams: True, Yeah.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, but they were all kicking themselves by this point, you would think. So yeah, doesn't make any sense. No, that's true. Yeah, OK. Never mind. It makes perfect sense.

Tim Williams: Right, right.

Nicholas Pepin: They don't learn, they still don't learn.

Tim Williams: Yeah, they still don't learn. Right. Costume designer Deborah Noodleman based Indy's outfit, flying jacket and fedora on Charlton Heston's in Secret of the Incas from 1954. And that film has been played a treasure hunting adventurer who, after studying an ancient model map room, uses a beam of sunlight reflected off a crystal to pinpoint the location of the treasure. That sounds familiar. In the film, Heston also flies a hijacked airplane and goes down a river and inflatable yellow raft reminiscent of events in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom 1984. Yeah, there were a couple of things that I saw where they felt like Secret of the Incas, like that Raiders pretty much stole the idea from that movie. yeah, and Harrison Ford didn't understand why Indiana Jones being an archaeologist would wear a leather jacket in the jungle and carry a bullwhip and had a lot of a things to say about it that I can't repeat on this podcast that I read. ⁓ right. There's so much that you can... I put way too much trivia in here. Let's see.

Ben Carpenter: Well, there's the whole, the origin of the ⁓ shooting, shooting Nicholas's favorite scene, you know, suppose, right.

Tim Williams: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that wasn't scripted. It was supposed to be in a fully ⁓ choreographed fight scene, but everybody was sick except for Steven Spielberg. He was the only one that didn't get sick because he only ate SpaghettiOs, cans of SpaghettiOs during the filming. But yeah, yeah. Bad dates. ⁓ So, yeah, so I think they said what Aidan Jones have. He was like super sick. I don't know.

Ben Carpenter: He didn't eat the dates that the monkey ate.

Nicholas Pepin: some kind of food poisoning or... And he was just like, how about I do this instead? And they're like, ⁓ that's better.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, I think they said the flu or something is what I've heard.

Tim Williams: Yeah, was something. Yeah. So, ⁓ dysentery. Right. Yeah. That's a better yelling. And once again, becomes one of the most iconic scenes in film history. And it was totally improvised the day of, so you love that kind of stuff. ⁓ this is, you know, since it would be talking about the arc of the covenant, I did find this was interesting. So, ⁓ as Nicholas and I are former, ⁓ Bible college students, didn't know that.

Ben Carpenter: Hahaha

Tim Williams: While Indy asks if the two US officials ever went to Sunday school, he doesn't seem to have paid much close attention in class himself. Much of the arc lore he tells them is not completely 100 % accurate. It contains not the first broken tablets of the commandments, but the second set. It also contained a bowl of mana and Aaron's flowering staff from Deuteronomy 10 and Hebrews 9. It is carried into battle and around the walls of Jericho, which fall when trumpets are blown, but there is nothing in the Bible about it leveling mountains or shooting death rays. Oddly enough, he doesn't tell them about the two most significant precautions in the Bible, don't touch it from 2 Samuel, and don't look into it from 1 Samuel, though he apparently remembers the last part at the climax of the film when he tells Mirian to close her eyes. It also brings plagues upon enemies who capture it. The reason for these prohibitions is that the Ark symbolizes the presence of God serving as his throne or footstool. Happily, the Ark in the movie appears to be an accurate replica, however, as do the priestly robes that Belloc wears at the end.

Ben Carpenter: an accurate replica except for R2D2 and C3PO. Or no, are they on the Ark or they're on the, they're in the Tomb? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. I knew they were in there somewhere.

Tim Williams: Hmm No, they're in one of the caves, they're in the tomb or one of the caves or whatever. yeah. But yeah, I actually was a couple of years ago and I was still in Jacksonville for a year. taught a middle school Bible class for middle school boys at a school down there. And when we got to the Ark of the Covenant, I actually showed them the scenes from Rangers of the Lost Ark. So the the part where he talks about it in the book and then when they're actually pulling it up and holding it because like that's a very accurate description and they had to carry it on poles because they weren't allowed to touch it. So they had to use poles to carry it. So, yep. So there's your little Bible knowledge for today's episode. Don't get that very often here. ⁓ I did not know this. The film was originally given an R rating. What? Because of the exploding head at the end.

Nicholas Pepin: Hmm

Tim Williams: They didn't want the picture to be rated R, so they added layers of fire in front of his face to make it appear less graphic. And I'm like, that's less graphic than the two melting heads and all of the corpses that seem to always turn their head right at the person that's being scared by them? Yeah, so.

Nicholas Pepin: ⁓

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, the MPAA was nonsensical back in the 80s.

Tim Williams: Yeah. Right. Right.

Nicholas Pepin: Still kind of is, but I mean it was this movie, Temple of Doom and a couple other Spielberg movies that went a long way to create, went a long way to, went a long way to creating PG-13.

Tim Williams: Goonies, poltergeist. Right, exactly. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. All ⁓ right. That last little bit of trivia that I do have a question. We'll start wrapping it up. So I had to talk about the fan theory that was popularized by the Big Bang Theory episode. The Raiders minimization states that Indiana Jones plays no role in the final outcome of the story, since despite his best efforts, the Germans still end up obtaining the Ark and killing themselves by opening it. In the absence of Indiana Jones, the Germans would have stolen the headpiece from Marion, made a correctly proportioned staff of raw and discovered the Ark themselves. It stands to reason that many Germans would have been killed during the first opening of the Ark, but they would have eventually figured out how to use the Ark as a weapon by keeping their eyes shut. However, it was Indiana Jones presence at the end that they make the difference. He finally recovered the Ark after he killed the Germans on the island and delivered it to the United States, thus keeping it out of German hands during World War II. Also, Indy's intervention undoubtedly saved Marion from being tortured and killed by the Germans hunting the headpiece. So as the scene points out, at least he got the girl. ⁓

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, I watched it a little more carefully this time to see, I'd ⁓ seen, know, and I was like, yeah, no, it doesn't really hold water because I mean, I don't know if the Nazis ever even find Marion, let alone get in the right place, you know, so.

Tim Williams: Yeah Right, right. Yeah, because they were still digging in the wrong spot. It was only Indy that figured out where they were. The real ⁓ well of souls was sorry. Yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, because Belluck was using the wrong dimensions of... Well, and he was using the wrong dimensions because he had interpreted the thing wrong. Yeah. And so, yeah, I don't know if they ever would have found it, let alone... I mean, so you could almost blame Indy for allowing them to find it in the first place, but...

Tim Williams: side of the medallion. ⁓ wrong dimensions, right. The medallion, yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. All right, so go ahead, Ben, you gonna add anything to that discussion?

Ben Carpenter: No, just other than who cares? It's fun. I mean, I get it. Yeah, I've always just, there's a certain level of.

Tim Williams: Right, right.

Ben Carpenter: You can over analyze, yes, thank you, ⁓ just about anything. ⁓ And this is one of the most fun ⁓ and well-made action films ever created. Yeah, I get that point, and I've heard it. But ⁓ yeah, it's.

Tim Williams: Analyze. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it made for a funny scene in a sitcom, which was great. yeah, it's well, yeah, but there are there are things that like and I think it's probably things that other people have brought up ⁓ that I see now when I watch the movie, like when Indy is under the truck and he uses his whip to be dragged by the truck, he doesn't pick the whip back up. It's still attached to the truck. So at what point does he get his whip back? So which we talked about that a little bit in the in Last Crusade.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah.

Tim Williams: Doesn't he use the whip to like he uses on the tank for some reason and we never figured out like how he got it No, it was his it was his shoulder bag somehow a shoulder bag got caught on the barrel of one of the guns But you never see how it got on there and how we got free from it. So yeah Yeah, yeah exactly. So he'll never lose the hat

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, right.

Ben Carpenter: It just returns to him like his hat.

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, are several times he uses the whip in a way that I'm not sure whips actually work. But as somebody who doesn't really use whips, can't definitively say that that's how they don't work. you know, it doesn't seem like that's how they work.

Tim Williams: Right.

Ben Carpenter: Hahaha

Tim Williams: Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And then at the end, after all the Nazis are dead, how do they get untied from the pole? Ha ha ha ha.

Ben Carpenter: don't know, maybe the ghost came back out of the arc and did it.

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah. They burn it burn like like it burned the the Nazi symbol off the crate, you know, the, you know, it burned the burned the ropes. They got free. So anyway, I'm not going to we're not going to dig too deep, but I just those are a few things that was watching. I was like, eh, but like you said, man, who cares? We watch this movie to be entertained. We're not here to try to poke holes in it. We're not going to do that ever. All right.

Nicholas Pepin: ghost is like, you didn't look, so we're gonna untie you.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah. you

Tim Williams: Box office Raiders of All-Stars was released in the US and Canada on June 12th, 1981. It earned 8.3 million and topped the weekend box office. In its second weekend, it dropped to third place behind Cannonball Run and Superman 2. By the fourth week, it climbed to second and in the sixth, it regained the top spot. It remained the number one for most of the next nine weeks and stayed in the top 10 for 40 weeks. By early September, it was the top summer film grossing approximately ⁓ $125 million. But yeah, like Ben said, it went well past a regular, you know, run in the theaters. just people kept going back to see it over and over again. So. All right. Now it's time to take a look at how well this 80s flick holds up today is to rewatch the building, the nostalgia meter. It's our way of measuring how enjoyable the movie is for repeat viewings, along with the waves and nostalgia it brings. If you're new, here's how it works. It's a one to 10 scale. Any number between one and 10 will do. But here are a few parameters. to help you decide. the bottom of the meter is a number one, which says, I saw it once and that was enough. In the middle at a five is a good rewatch every couple of years. And at the top, a number 10, the highly coveted, highly rewatchable and full of nostalgia rating. So I will start with Ben. Ben, where does Raiders of the Lost Ark rank for you on the rewatchability and nostalgia meter?

Ben Carpenter: Well, if you go back and you listen to previous podcast episodes where I've done this, I do not hand out high scores. This is one of just a small handful of movies that I would not even have to think about and assign it a 10.

Tim Williams: Right, right. Mm. All right.

Ben Carpenter: every time, like we said earlier, back when you used to flip channels on TV and you came across some channel was showing Raiders, well, you sat there and you watched the rest of Raiders. ⁓

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Yep. And then you stayed to watch Temple of Doom and Last Crusade. Like my day shot. I'm going to sit here and watch all these movies back to back to back. So and then when Crystal Skull comes on, you leave and go do whatever you want.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah.

Nicholas Pepin: Hehehehehe

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, yeah, go clip your toenails or something more interesting than that maybe.

Tim Williams: Right. All right. What say you, Nicholas?

Nicholas Pepin: I mean, it's hard to disagree. I mean, I just, I guess I don't, I don't know if I can give it a full on 10, but I, I kind of want to, ⁓ I guess, I guess.

Tim Williams: Nobody's stopping you.

Nicholas Pepin: The only reason that I'm stopping myself from giving it a 10 is that I don't watch it as often as I should So I guess I'm gonna go Nine

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah. Okay. I respect that. ⁓ I'm going to go with Ben and give it a 10 as well. I think, yes, but I agree with you, Nicholas. I don't watch it as often as I probably should or want to, but at the same time, it's one that any time of the day, any time of the year, I would put it on and would enjoy watching it. Like it doesn't need a special occasion to watch it. And I will say the reason this was the very first movie that we covered on the podcast is that I had a Facebook group called movie views, which is where the podcast kind of came out of where I did a, ⁓ a bracket, which of course Nicholas knows all about brackets, but I did an eighties movie bracket and this one was ranked and it won the bracket at number one of the best eighties movie. So, ⁓ I don't know if I would still say that today. If I think it's the best eighties movie, but it's definitely in the, in the elite, ⁓ the elite of the 80s movies for sure. So, but yeah, I'm to give it a 10 just because I think it's the nostalgia factor is super high. Like I said, I can't, there's not a part of my life where I didn't know about star Wars, Indiana Jones, you know, the, it's so ingrained in my childhood that any, any of the Indiana Jones movies that came out in the 80s, I'll say that, ⁓ you know, are enjoyable. even if some are better than others. And there's always that thing of like, which one do you rank higher? Like I think, uh, temple of doom always ends up number three, Bri, Bri, Bri, Bri, Bri. It's a, it depends on what day you're going to put writers over last crusade and they kind of bounce back and forth. That's definitely how it is for me. I love last crusade so much, but even watching this again today, it's like, eh, I'd kind of want to put it back up there, but they're very similar as well. Like there's, there's a lot of similarities, which If go back in the episode about Last Crusade, that was intentional. after the reception that Temple of Doom got when they went to Last Crusade, like we want to get back to what made Raider so great. And so they incorporate a lot of those same ⁓ those same things, which is why I think those two are kind of like the best of the series for sure. All right. Well, let us know. Go ahead, Nicholas.

Nicholas Pepin: I think I was gonna cosign on everything you just said. I it's it's

Tim Williams: Yeah. Is that your cat, Nicholas? I was like, heard this noise in the background. was like, I think that's a cat. was like, ⁓ Nicholas has cats. So yeah. What does the cat give it?

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, I also cosign.

Nicholas Pepin: Yeah, she's mad, but she can get over it.

Ben Carpenter: Yeah, sounds like it's trying to speak English. Hahaha

Nicholas Pepin: Well, she's old enough to have been around, ⁓ I mean, she... She's watched it a couple times with me, so...

Ben Carpenter: you

Tim Williams: How many meows does she get? it get so? All right. Well, let us know where you think Raiders of the Lost Ark should rank on the rewatchability install to meet her. Send us an email. Let us know on social media. Leave us a comment in YouTube. So I will Ben Nicholas. Thank you so much for joining me for this revisiting of Raiders of the Lost Ark has been a lot of fun. Appreciate having you guys on the show for sure.

Ben Carpenter: You

Tim Williams: All right, well that's a wrap on another trip to the greatest decade of cinema. If we sparked a memory or helped you rediscover a classic, please head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five-star review. It truly helps the show reach more fans like you. To make sure you're always in loop for our next deep dive, hit that follow or subscribe button. And if you want to keep the show running, consider becoming a partner at buymeacoffee.com. For more 80s goodness, our digital headquarters is always open at 80sflickflashback.com. ⁓ And while you're there, check out our T-Public store for original designs and movie inspired merch that'll have you looking like a 1980s icon. Thank you, Ben. Thank you, Nicholas. Appreciate you both being here. Thanks everybody for listening for 80s flick flashback. I'm Tim Williams, snakes. Why did it have to be snakes?