"They Live" (1988) with Laramy Wells

Tim Williams: Long before algorithms dictated what we bought and saturation marketing consumed our daily lives, one horror master looked at nineteen eighties Reaganomics, threw up his hands, and asked, what if the upper class were actually blue faced ghouls hiding among us? John Carpenter, genre master and director of such popular classics as Halloween, Escape from New York, and Big Trouble in Little China, made one of the most subversive action horror flicks of all time. It didn't gain much popularity in its day, but its cult classic status is undeniable. So grab your backpack of tools, your real world decoding sunglasses, spit out that bubblegum as Laramie Wells and I discuss, They live from nineteen eighty eight on this episode of the eighties flick flashback podcast. All right, welcome to the show, everybody. It's so good to have you here with us. I'm your host, Tim Williams, and we're excited to talk about a somewhat horror movie, even though it's not really a horror movie, more of an action movie, but you know,

Laramy: Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Williams: it still fits. And if you've been listening to the show for a while, you know my guest co-host is no stranger to the 80s flick flashback microphone. Thankfully, I didn't have to pick a fight with him in the alley to convince him to join us. Please welcome back to the show, Laramie Wells from Moving Panels Podcast. My brain is like not wanting to work today. So how you doing, Laramie?

Laramy: I am good. I have come to chew bubblegum and talk

Tim Williams: Ha ha.

Laramy: about eighties movies and I'm all out of

Tim Williams: All out of bubble gum. Yeah, we've we'll talk about that infamous line, I'm sure, as we go on. But let's jump right in. We're starting our spooky season, it's the beginning of October. I like to do kind of a fun, not so straight up horror movie for my first episode of October. So we made a little pivot, which I won't go into the details, but this is one that O Laramie's been wanting do for about four years now. I remember when you bought the Blu ray, you sent me you sent me a text

Laramy: Yeah.

Tim Williams: like. Whenever you're ready, I want to do this one. So and I've had this, I've been kind of had this one kind of in my back pocket just in case we needed a filler. So I'm glad we finally got to do it. And the fun part was my wife actually watched it with me today and I think it was her first time seeing it. So but really? Okay, so cool. So

Laramy: The same. Yeah.

Tim Williams: well, when did you see They Live for the very first time, Larry?

Laramy: the usual on TV many, many years ago.

Tim Williams: Ha ha ha.

Laramy: yeah, I couldn't pinpoint exactly. but I I can guarantee you it was on television at some point was the way I saw it. But yeah.

Tim Williams: Yeah. Yeah, I c I can see that.

Laramy: as a wrestling fan and a movie buff, like

Tim Williams: for sure. Yeah.

Laramy: this this was this has always been one of my favorites.

Tim Williams: Yeah. so this one was actually recommended to me by a friend of mine when it came out on on VHS. So we watched it on VHS. He had seen it already. My good friend Derek Deal, if Derek's listening, what's up, Derek? and so he had told me about it, he's like, Man, you gotta see this movie, it's so cool. And so I think I spent the night his house and we watched it, and then it was like it became one of my instant favorites. So was one that you know, I would watch if it was on cable or if I was able to. Check it out

Laramy: Mm-hmm.

Tim Williams: from the library, you'll be able to rent it, especially during like, you know, the summer. It has kind of like that summer action kind of feel to it. Then of course in October when it's time to like look at. But I don't I don't really necessarily think of this. Yeah, I don't

Laramy: Yeah. It's not really a horror movie, yeah.

Tim Williams: think of it as like a scary movie for Halloween, but it is listed like when I was watching it on Fandango at home, which is how I have the digital copy. It has it listed as horror sci-fi. And I'm like, I would put it more like action sci-fi if

Laramy: Mm. Yeah.

Tim Williams: I had to. So

Laramy: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's No. Yeah, they're not.

Tim Williams: 'Cause the aliens aren't really killing anybody. There's no like there's not a lot of any blood, yeah.

Laramy: They're they're absolutely not. So there's no yeah, I mean the yeah, and and the the violent parts that we do see most half of it's in black and white.

Tim Williams: Yeah. Right, exactly. So how long has it been since you watched it before re watching it for the podcast?

Laramy: what'd you say it was four years ago when I bought the Blu ray? Yeah. It

Tim Williams: I I'm I'm guessing it's it might have yeah, probably around four years ago.

Laramy: yeah, so it was it was probably back when I first bought the Blu ray. it's just and again, it's just one of those that, you know, having the time and being able to watch it

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: when when again, I've got small children, so you know don't know what exactly would maybe freak them out. I think my older daughter would be okay with it, but

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: But I mean they're these are s as kinda cheap as the aliens look, they're kinda freaky. So yeah.

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I would say it's probably around the same time. I think when you sent that to me, I was like, man, I totally forgot this was an 80s movie. And I think,

Laramy: Yeah.

Tim Williams: and I think like maybe like a month or so after, I think it was on one of the streamers. And so I was like, I'm gonna watch it. So I remember watching it, and I was kind of like, I don't know if this really holds up as well as I remember, but we're watching it back today. I mean it's got its moments where you're just like, okay,

Laramy: Yeah.

Tim Williams: it's it's like a glorified B movie in moments, but

Laramy: absolutely.

Tim Williams: but it it's still it's still pretty fun. it's a good popcorn flick with a little bit of like serious undertone. Like it there's definitely a message in it.

Laramy: it's yeah.

Tim Williams: but and that was like when when Tyra went over, she's like, Who thought this movie was a good idea? I was telling her, I was like, you know, it's basically, you know, a take on Reaganomics at the time, consumerism and you know, trying to like yeah, just consumerism and trying to live the the quote unquote in the American dream. Like that was all about excess and get as much as you can, as fast as you can, kind of thing. So it was kind of like a allegory, I guess you would say, of that.

Laramy: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how much you're gonna get into because it's not an original, like it's ba yeah, it's based on a short story,

Tim Williams: No. Yeah.

Laramy: which like I I mentioned earlier, you know, Bethany and I watched it together. And now that I have become you know, I've always read comic books, but

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: now that I've become more of a reader reader, you know, re re reading more you know, more novels and

Tim Williams: More comics than you ever had. yeah, in novels, yeah. Yeah.

Laramy: Well, not just comics, but yeah, you know, reading the Stephen King stuff more, you know, I'm I'm reading the Dungeon Crawler Carl series, you know, I'm reading a lot of other things. we're watching the opening credits and it's like and it says, you know, based on the short story, eight

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: minutes or eight o'clock in the morning, I think is

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: the name of the and I was like, look at that. And Bethany jokingly says, we gotta stop it so we can read the book.

Tim Williams: Ha

Laramy: And I said, Well, it does say short story, so I wonder how long it really is. We looked

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: it up, found it for free online. It is

Tim Williams: Okay.

Laramy: six it is six pages long. So we just went ahead and paused the movie

Tim Williams: Wow. Wow.

Laramy: and we just went ahead and read the short story. So yeah.

Tim Williams: Right. Love it. Was it loosely based or is it pretty

Laramy: It takes the premise. if you

Tim Williams: Gotcha.

Laramy: want to go ahead and get into it, we'll get into it.

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: but it opens with the character's name is actually George, not John.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: why did my mind not what why did my mind go Nada? Yeah. It they never yeah, you only know it because of the credits.

Tim Williams: Nada, yeah, which they never really say his name in the movie. Right.

Laramy: but it his name's George Nada in the in the short story and he ha it opens he has like participated in a hypnosis like show

Tim Williams: Okay. Yeah.

Laramy: and that is what wakes him up as they

Tim Williams: Okay.

Laramy: call it but but everything else is roughly the same like he he sees the signs that say like obey and it's like you know eight

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: eight hours of sleep eight hours of work eight hours of play

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: You know, all those signs that he's you know, he sees them all. He does describe the aliens as more like lizard looking, like scales and like yellow

Tim Williams: Okay. Mm-hmm.

Laramy: eyes. but but he's not a drifter. He's

Tim Williams: Okay.

Laramy: he's he's got a girlfriend, he's got an apartment. and but but other than that, it's roughly the same. He does get a phone call. This is why it's called eight. Eight o'clock in the morning.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: He gets a phone call, and it's it is an alien that's his controller with the sheriff's department or something.

Tim Williams: Okay.

Laramy: Apparently, they've learned that he has, you know, he can see and all that.

Tim Williams: Mm.

Laramy: And they say, You're going to die of a heart attack at eight o'clock in the morning.

Tim Williams: Okay.

Laramy: And he they say, you know, say yes to confirm or something like that. And he, you know, he says yes. But then he hangs up the phone and he goes, That's not happening.

Tim Williams: Ha ha ha.

Laramy: but the day goes along, he's he he's tries to wake other people up. he does get to wake up the other people up. I do believe it's a I'm starting to blur the movie and the the short story now. He either does get on television or he does it through radio. I can't remember now. And he's the one. He likes screams out at everybody, you know, wake up, wake up,

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: wake up. and then it does talk about how he does wake everyone up, and that it there was then a war. And it just it just says there was a war. We don't actually see it. And

Tim Williams: Okay. And that's it, yeah. Gotcha.

Laramy: then it said that, but he did not get to see it. He died of a heart attack at eight o'clock in the night. yeah.

Tim Williams: Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Well, that'll lead us right into our fun segment where it's time to put our ultimate nostalgic knowledge to the test. It's time for risky quizness. All right, here's how it works. I'm gonna give you five statements regarding the story origin and the pre-production of They Live. You have to tell me whether each statement is true or false. If you get three or more correct, you officially beat me as the host. you win the game and claim the ultimate bragging rights because there aren't

Laramy: And now we get to host the show after if we it's it's like yeah, it's it's like beat the geeks.

Tim Williams: Sure, like yeah, I'll just I'll send you the notes, you go for it. Right, right. if you get fewer than three, well, the aliens win. You have to stare at magazine ads telling you to consume all day long. So yeah. well, I already know you're gonna get this first one right. So statement number one

Laramy: Ha ha ha.

Tim Williams: They live wasn't originally conceived as a Hollywood script. It is based on a 1963 science fiction short story titled Eight O'Clock in the Morning, written by Ray Nelson.

Laramy: you you're the only thing could be is that you're tricking me with the year, but I'm I'm gonna say true. Yeah.

Tim Williams: Yeah, it's true. the short story was published in the magazine of fantasy and science fiction. Was the blueprint for the film. John Carpenter actually adapted it into a comic book version called Nada before writing the final screenplay under the pseudonym Frank Armitage.

Laramy: I gotta go find out if that ex that that actually exists.

Tim Williams: Yeah. I and I was I wonder when I saw the comic book connection. I was like, I wonder if Laramie knows about the comic. So

Laramy: I did not.

Tim Williams: yeah. All right, number two. John Carpenter discovered his leading man, Rowdy Roddy Piper, because he saw him playing golf at a celebrity charity tournament. True or false?

Laramy: No, he they met at WrestleMania three.

Tim Williams: That is correct. That is a false statement. He was he did meet him at WrestleMania 3 in 1987. He was instantly mesmerized by Piper's raw charisma, intensity, and blue collar screen presence, knowing right away he had found his working class hero. All right, two for two. Number three before casting Roddy Piper, Universal Pictures heavily pushed John Carpenter to cast a mainstream box office action star, initially offering the role to Kurt Russell.

Laramy: Ooh, that one I don't know. Man, that was a tough one. I I f I feel like that one's going to be true because he's done he did so much with Kurt Russell already. and you know they're gonna want somebody more named than than a professional wrestler. So

Tim Williams: Ha ha.

Laramy: I'm gonna say true on that one. All right, good. I got three.

Tim Williams: That is correct. That is true. Universal wanted a bigger name. Yes, you've beat the host already. Carpenter briefly considered his frequent collaborator Kurt Russell. Ultimately they realized the movie required an authentic, rugged, working class icon type like Piper rather than an overexposed traditional action star.

Laramy: And if you and if they still cast Keith David, that would have just been a the thing reunion. Yeah.

Tim Williams: Yeah. Yeah, reunion. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right. This one's just see if you can get the sweep. number four. The famously long six-minute alleyway fist fight between Nada and Frank was entirely improvised on the spot because the actors forgot their choreography. True or false?

Laramy: absolutely absolutely not. Ratty Roddy Piper would not have allowed that to happen.

Tim Williams: That is true. You're correct. That is false. The big fight sequence was designed, rehearsed, and choreographed. In the backyard of director John Carpenter's production office, the fight was only supposed to last 20 seconds, but Piper and David decided to fight it out for real, only faking the hits to the face and groin. They rehearsed the fight for three weeks. Carpenter was so impressed he kept the full scene intact. Keith David recounted the event when he said, It was good fun. I never felt safer in any fight. Because Piper, a professional wrestler, coached David on how to sell the look of the punches. And savage moves in exaggerated form making it appear more brutal than it actually was.

Laramy: Yeah. That that is one of the most like realistic fights I've ever seen

Tim Williams: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Laramy: in a movie.

Tim Williams: Yeah. And I did I didn't put it in this, I don't think I put it here, but like like Tyra was like, okay, how much longer are they gonna fight? Like it is a very long fight scene, but

Laramy: Yeah.

Tim Williams: Carpenter said like he he kind of liked it because he felt like it showed like how stubborn you know, Keith David was like how stubborn we are to not to realize that something is trying to control us. Like we will fight that long to not wanna submit to the truth. So I was like, okay. Interesting.

Laramy: I actually when the first punch was thrown, I know they talk

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: a little bit in between the the couple of first punches, but when the first per pitch first punch was thrown, I actually went, I wonder, and I pulled out my phone and I stopwatched it. And

Tim Williams: Timed it.

Laramy: so it is it is right around five and a half minutes from from first punch all the way to h

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Laramy: him finally putting the glasses on and seeing seeing the aliens down the alley. So

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Laramy: yeah.

Tim Williams: And that was what we liked when like when he finally like like pretty much just knocked him out on his back and then he put the glasses on him, like Tyr was like, he should have done that in the first place. Like I think that's what he was trying to do.

Laramy: Yeah, that that was the whole point.

Tim Williams: Right, right. All right, let's see if you can get a full sweep. Number five, the homeless camp used in the movie was not created by the crew. It was a real area of Los Angeles with actual homeless people used as extras and smaller characters. True or false.

Laramy: Ooh, that's a tough one. See, I wanna say that that's true, but then they destroyed it. So I would hope it wasn't true. But then at the same time I want to say it's true because then they probably, you know, gave each of them, you know, some money for being quote unquote extras, I would hope. let's see. You know what? This is probably the best I've ever done. If I'm not perfect, I'm still proud. So

Tim Williams: Ha ha ha.

Laramy: I'm gonna say it's true.

Tim Williams: And you got a clean sweep. It is

Laramy: Yes.

Tim Williams: true. John Carpenter brought real homeless folks into the production for several scenes and gave them food as well as paychecks.

Laramy: Awesome.

Tim Williams: Roddy Piper said, I thought that was a pretty classy thing to do. So, but yeah.

Laramy: Yeah. Awesome. That's what I was hoping.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yep. Very cool.

Laramy: Good to know.

Tim Williams: All right. So let us know how well you did if you're playing along at home. Send us an email, a message on social media, or leave us a comment right here on YouTube. Did you do as good as Laramie did? I wonder if he did. So all right. Well, let's jump into casting. Let's talk about our star, Mr. Rowdy Roddy Piper, as Nada. Of course, he was a pro wrestler from 1973 to 1987 in the NWA Pacific Northwest California. He was a longtime mainstay in the WWF and one of the biggest bad guys in the WWF during the early 80s before becoming a fan favorite in the late 80s. He pay he became infamous for his mouth as much as his skills in the ring. He was wrestling's most popular villain because of his feud with Hulk Hogan that culminated in WrestleMania 1. So yeah.

Laramy: Yep, tag tag team match at in as the main event. Rowdy

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: Rowdy Piper and Mr. Wonderful Paul Ondorf. Or no no no

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: no it wasn't. It was no, I think it was I think it was, and then Cowboy Bob Wharton was at ringside

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: for them. And then it was Hulk Hogan and Mr. T.

Tim Williams: yeah, that makes sense. That would make sense. Yeah. so talking about I'll add a couple little little trivia things here about the movie, about him in the movie. So Roddy Piper recalls it being uncomfortably easy getting to the mindset of a homeless person. He said, I lived on the street myself, so it didn't take long to kind of get the feeling of what's going on. Everybody's got their own little life and they think that's it, and nobody's helping nobody. The scene where the police attack and destroy the homeless encampment was difficult for him to shoot as it reminded him of similar events he had witnessed in his own life. He said it was a painful scene for me. So that was interesting.

Laramy: Sure. And there's so many stories, professional wrestlers, the one

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: the ones that from you know that that are from the beginning of of

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Laramy: what we know today, those eighties wrestlers, you go back and see their stories. I mean, they're

Tim Williams: yeah.

Laramy: they're wrestling for fifty dollars. Like that

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laramy: you know, there there was so there's so many I've read so many autobiographies and biographies about wrestlers where they essentially were homeless for the longest

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: time.

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: You know, wrestling in, you know, school gymnasiums for a hundred people and getting paid ten bucks or or something. Yeah.

Tim Williams: Right, right. County, yeah. County county fairs and you know, just anywhere they could anywhere they could they could get a match. So yeah. So we we kind of referenced it already, but it was Roddy Piper himself who came up with the now famous one liner. I've come here to chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of bubblegum. According to director John Carpenter Piper had previously written a line in his notebook of potential verbal bits during his wrestling career. He shared the notebook with Carpenter and they agreed that this particular line fit the character and the film perfectly. Of course, Piper went on to use it at a wrestling match after the movie came out. Why not? Mm-hmm. He has some great ones in the movie, so

Laramy: Yeah. Piper was so good at those one liners. Yeah. There's the just when you think you know the answer, I change the question. Yeah.

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: That's one of my favorites.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right. And then we got Keith David as Frank Armitage. I didn't realize that he they gave him the last same last name as the quote-unquote screenwriter. he starred in such films as The Thing, which we've talked about from 1982. We also talked about him in Platoon 86. In the 90s, he was in Dead Presidents, Armageddon. There's something about Mary into the 2000s, barbershop crash, the nice guys. Nope and American fiction in twenty twenty three. I mean he's been in so much stuff. He's like, you

Laramy: No. And

Tim Williams: know.

Laramy: and and not you know, I I hate to s to say this, but when I honestly say when Morgan Freeman finally departs this earth, Keith David will be the voice.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah. yeah. He's done a bunch of like documentary, like voiceover for documentary. So he has,

Laramy: yeah. Yep.

Tim Williams: and that's what Tyra's like. Tyra had her head turned and she was like, wait, I know that voice. And she

Laramy: I know that voice, yeah.

Tim Williams: was like, look at him looking all young and bald headed.

Laramy: Well and he he I always my brain always goes to he used to be like the voice of Cartoon Network in like the early two thousands.

Tim Williams: yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Laramy: And of course right now he's he's got what's it called? President Carter on on HBO Max, which is an adult swim. It's a spin off spinoff of Rick and Morty where he play he plays the president.

Tim Williams: okay. gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay.

Laramy: yeah, no, his voice And I loved that he he finally he got his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame just just about a yeah, just a few months ago. So yeah, great

Tim Williams: Yes, yes, this past year. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Laramy: legendary voice and actor.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yep. so Carpenter was impressed with Keith David's performance in the thing and needed someone who wouldn't be a traditional sidekick but could hold his own. And for that reason, Carpenter wrote the role of Frank specifically for Keith David, which I think is pretty cool. So all right. Then we've got Meg Foster as Holly Thompson. She guest starred on numerous TV shows, including two episodes of Hawaii 5 0 in 1973 and 1976. She was also on The Six Million Dollar Man, Murder She Wrote, Miami Vice, The Cosby Show, Quantum Leap, ER. She also portrayed Hira in Hercules The Legendary Journeys and Xena Warrior Princess. Of course, in the 80s, she movie she starred in the 80s with she was in Carney, which had Jodie Foster and Gary Busey. she was in the big screen version of Masters of the Universe, which we covered already. And she was also in the Viathan, starring Peter Weller and Richard Krena. So but yeah, the eyes of Meg Foster, that is her her signature. Yeah.

Laramy: Yeah. Those piercing blue eyes.

Tim Williams: Tara was like, she's got such blue eyes. They're real. Those are her real eyes. So

Laramy: Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah, she's I always think of evil and she's from

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Laramy: yeah.

Tim Williams: That's what I I mean, when I when I see that name, that's immediately who I think about. So I recognize her of that more than anything else. Then we've got Raymond Saint Jacques as the street preacher. I I mentioned this. I think he's been in a couple other things that we've covered, but I want to say he's noted as the first black actor to appear in a regular role on a Western series. He portrayed Simon Blake on the eighth season of Rawhide from nineteen sixty-five to nineteen sixty-six.

Laramy: Pretty cool.

Tim Williams: But he's been he's had a few like small role he was in glory. That's what I was trying to remember. He played Frederick Douglass in glory. That's where I knew we we had talked

Laramy: okay.

Tim Williams: about him before. So And then we've got George Buck Flower as quote unquote the drifter. He's

Laramy: Mm-hmm.

Tim Williams: the one that he's kind of the one that's kind of talking on the then they find him again when he's all dressed up at the end. Yeah, yeah.

Laramy: He's yeah, he's w one of the two guys watching television. Yeah.

Tim Williams: Smoking the cigarette. Wish that guy would just shut up. so director John Carpenter cast Flower in supporting role in the supernatural horror film The Fog in 1980 and continued to hire him for smaller roles in several several of his other films. Including Escape from New York in 81, Starman in 84, Body Bags in 93, and Village of the Damned in 1995. We also saw him in Back to the Future and Back to the Future 2 as Red the Bum. Same

Laramy: Yep.

Tim Williams: guy.

Laramy: He's another one. He's got a great voice. He's another one with a great

Tim Williams: Yeah, he does.

Laramy: voice.

Tim Williams: He does. and and really when I s when he when I I recognize when he was like dressed like when he was like fancied up in the tucks and like well groomed, I was like, I feel like I've seen him in other stuff, but he typically say he typically plays like a homeless or like down on his luck type of character. So then we got Peter Jason. I think this is the last one on the list. Yeah, Peter Jason as Gilbert. he worked steadily across the eighties, appearing in the karate kid as the soccer coach. A supporting role in Richard Pryor's film Brewster's Millions. He had two roles in the TV series Rumingkin's Rumington Steel. also played the lead role of Malcolm O'Keefe, a deranged killer who terrorizes a young boy and his teenage babysitter in the independent horror slasher flick Trick-or-Treats, in case you wanted to add that to your list, this Halloween. But near the end of the decade, he began a fruitful working relationship with John Carpenter, appearing in seven of his films. Over the course of three decades, he first appeared in 1987's Prince of Darkness, followed by They Live, and later the likes of In The Mouth of Madness in 94, Village of the Damned in 95, and Escape from LA in 96. He also worked with Walter Hill nine times across his career, including playing The Racist Bartender in 48 Hours and an appearance in Red Heat.

Laramy: Okay. Yeah.

Tim Williams: So definitely it was like a that guy when I when he was like, I yeah, yeah, I was like, I've seen

Laramy: That's what I was about to say.

Tim Williams: him in so many things. So I was going looking at after I watched saw the film auctor, I was like, yeah, he was the coach in yeah, he was the coach in karate kid. I kind of remember him in Brewster's Millions and then yeah, 48 hours, like, yeah, I definitely remember him there. He also did some stuff with Meatloaf, the singer who became an actor, and I was like, he kind of looks like Meatloaf, if you think

Laramy: Little bit.

Tim Williams: about it. So all right, anybody else on the cast that I did mention there

Laramy: Is there anybody else in the cast?

Tim Williams: were a few, but I was like, Nope, don't remember who that was. Don't remember that was.

Laramy: Yeah. Nah.

Tim Williams: I will say there they did have one person that did play all of the ali all of the aliens that spoke were all played by the same stunt man, but he was that's pretty much what he's done. So

Laramy: Well s so it was I actually watched one of the special features and found out

Tim Williams: Okay.

Laramy: about the so they hired one guy to play all of the male aliens and then they had a woman one

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

Laramy: woman play all the female aliens. However, the stunt coordinator actually plays a couple of the aliens.

Tim Williams: Okay, okay.

Laramy: there I can't remember w I I know he said there were two. there were one that it was about the height of the alien. And they were

Tim Williams: okay. Gotcha.

Laramy: like and John Carpenter was like, Yeah, you're you're the exact height I need. And so he played

Tim Williams: Ha ha.

Laramy: the alien he also plays the alien in that very last scene. That's

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: yeah. That's the stunt coordinator playing that alien.

Tim Williams: Gotcha.

Laramy: Yeah. So yeah, that unnecessary very last scene.

Tim Williams: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of scenes, we're going into iconic scenes. That's not one of them. Yeah.

Laramy: Well that's not one of them. No.

Tim Williams: But when somebody says to you they live, what's the first scene that pops in your head?

Laramy: How could it not be I came to chew bubblegum and kick butt and

Tim Williams: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Laramy: I'm all out of bubblegum? How could it not?

Tim Williams: Right, right. That is d by far the most iconic scene. I I would say that and the fight in the alley are the two scenes that I immediately think about. So

Laramy: I I wonder because I found out Bethany knew that line. She did not know this was the movie it came from.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's been re it's like been said in several other things over the years. It's like one of those pop culture references. Yeah.

Laramy: Yeah. Or variations of it, yeah.

Tim Williams: One of those pop culture references, like, you know, people it's in the it's in our pop culture, but most people don't know where it came from. So but yeah. any favorites, any other scenes that are favorite scenes or scenes you want to talk about?

Laramy: I don't know about favorite scenes other than that one. I I always you know the the the the visual of the creatures

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: i is always something that again sticks with you. Like it's

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: there's such a unique style that

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: You know, send you back a little bit to the classic, you know, like fifties, sixties B movie.

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah. I like the idea of it being in black and white with the sunglasses. I thought that was a really cool choice to make there. So

Laramy: Or or halfway through the movie going, Yeah, we can't have our main characters in sunglasses the entire time. So guess what? We made contacts.

Tim Williams: Right. Yeah. Contact. Yeah. Yeah. I did like that.

Laramy: Yeah, and we just have to briefly explain that even though the sunglasses it felt like a knife stabbing in your brain after you

Tim Williams: Right.

Laramy: wore them for so long, the the the contacts are better. They're they're better.

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Laramy: It's not a big of a problem.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: I will say there's a lot about this movie. I actually forgot. so but yeah, the yeah, the look of the aliens and of course the bubblegum s line, I I think I think those are the the most iconic things of this movie.

Tim Williams: Yeah. I'll unlike you. I don't really have I think favorite scene is probably like the fight scene, even though I think it goes on a little too long. I do like like when he discovers when he goes into the church and discovers like the boxes of the glasses, he sees they've got recording of like the choir singing the songs while they're up up in the actual sanctuary filming the the videos or you know, the trying to do the transmissions or whatever. I did like that scene. And I do like the scene where he finally puts the glasses on and he kind of like begin to see everything for the first time and like all the signs and the

Laramy: Yeah.

Tim Williams: you know all the messages and then you and it's actually there's like like I didn't understand if like the if the glass with the glasses where without the glasses you could see the little like satellite dish that was like transmitting. I don't know if that was very clear. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Laramy: Yeah. Yeah, the well and yeah. Cause yeah, the one that was on top of the pole. Well, that was also the case with the the drone. Because

Tim Williams: Yeah, the drones, yeah, true. Yeah.

Laramy: he blows up the drone and then he ducks and covers, but we don't see anything fall. We hear things fall, but we don't see anything fall. So I don't know if they're supposed to be invisible,

Tim Williams: But nothing anything, yeah, exactly. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Laramy: or if they were implying because I was also confused, like Were they actually in helicopters or were the helicopters even something?

Tim Williams: Mm yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laramy: But here's my biggest thing. And I this is I've been hoping to bring this up. And I think this is the perfect time to bring this up.

Tim Williams: Let's do it.

Laramy: What do the aliens see?

Tim Williams: Yeah, that is a good question.

Laramy: Because if they see each other the way

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: that they're supposed to look, fine.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: But does that mean they also see all the signs that way? And if that's the case. The ones reading the newspapers and the magazines, like what

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laramy: are they reading?

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: So I'm that's my biggest question of this movie is what do the aliens see?

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a good question. Like one, I wonder if like they see a different message. Like one message is on is what what with the glasses? I don't know. It's like, you know, we're digging too deep into into the the the rationale. Yeah, yeah. But that

Laramy: Yeah.

Tim Williams: is I did that is a good question. I know the one guy makes a make, you know, says, you know, you guys are just as ugly to us as we are to you. but going back to their their look, so the aliens, sorry, the aliens superficially resemble walking, rotting corpses. John Carpenter didn't want the aliens to look like the high tech creatures of other science fiction films. He decided that since these beings were being were corrupting humanity, they themselves should resemble corruptions of human beings. So that's why he chose that that look for them, which I thought was pretty smart. So

Laramy: Makes sense? Yeah.

Tim Williams: I wish their mouths worked a little bit better when they're talking. Yeah.

Laramy: no. See again, that's that's one of the things I liked about it is that it clearly just a mask and yeah.

Tim Williams: Mm for sure, yeah.

Laramy: No, that makes it makes it great eighties B movie.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It definitely has its it has its B movie moments. But yeah, they're talking about the things that you forgot. Like I forgot about Meg Force Meg Foster's character. Like when he, you know, kind of like I don't say attacks her, but when he like takes her hostage. And it's like it's only there just to have her at the station at the end to then spoiler alert turn on him at the end, which I thought

Laramy: Yeah.

Tim Williams: was, you know, interesting. I didn't like how a Keith David got taken out though. Like that that really bothered me. I forgot about that happening too. So

Laramy: Yeah. yeah, I didn't forget about her. I will say I didn't forget about her because as soon as she's introduced and Bethany wa I wasn't looking at the exact moment because you know, he Piper does look at her and we do see her in black and white. So we know she's not an alien.

Tim Williams: Right, right.

Laramy: But there was a little bit later that Bethany said, Wait, do we know if she's an alien or not? I said, Well,

Tim Williams: Mm.

Laramy: no, we we've seen her, but in the back of my head I'm already going, But she's a bad guy. Like

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: but I honestly what I forgot was the whole resistance thing. The the fact that there was a whole group of of them.

Tim Williams: really? Yeah. Yeah. That was one part that I did remember. Like I remembered the resistance part. And I remembered them going to like I couldn't remember if it was a TV. I mean, once I started watching again, I like, it's a TV station or where the signal is. But I couldn't I remember there was there was a resistance and they kind of joined the resistance. I forgot about the contact lenses.

Laramy: Yeah. Yeah, I forgot about the contact lenses. I forgot that there were multiple pairs of sunglasses too. I really I really thought there was just the one.

Tim Williams: yeah, yeah. It was just that one, yeah.

Laramy: Yeah.

Tim Williams: So but what's funny is like he has that scene where he goes back to the trash can to get the box. He climbs into the truck to get the box, but yes, but Bach and Ba yeah, exactly. But

Laramy: Yeah. Yes. Yes. You mean the Hollywood trash that's nothing but paper and cardboard? Yes. Mm-hmm.

Tim Williams: then he still just has the one pair like he doesn't go and hand them out to people like what he doesn't get. Yeah. Right, right.

Laramy: No, but he does get the second pair s so that he and Keith David both have a pair.

Tim Williams: Yeah, but I'm like, You got a whole box. Just start handing them out to people. Like, hey, put these on. Put these on. But anyway. Then the movie would have been over. But so

Laramy: Well, it still would have only been a few people. The idea

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: was to get it out to everybody.

Tim Williams: Yeah. But you know, now that you've talked about what how the sh the short story and how it ends that there was a war, I kinda I kinda like the ending a little bit better now because yes, he blows up the spoiler alert, if you haven't seen it yet, stop now, go watch it and come back. Yeah.

Laramy: Seeing this forty year old maybe.

Tim Williams: but like, you know, he goes to the top of the building, he's gonna blow up the the main dish that's the main signal. And he gets shot while he blows it up and he dies, but then the signal's broken. So then not everybody can see the aliens. They're fully ex or you know, they're fully exposed or whatever. But and that's it. Like once they're exposed, the movie's over. So we don't really see what happens after that. So I do kind of like it left us. And I don't feel like it was like a teaser for a sequel. It's more just like, okay, you know, something you know, what's gonna happen next is is kind of up to your own interpretation. But did you

Laramy: That's kinda like the ending ending of the thing. Yeah.

Tim Williams: yeah, for sure. Yeah. Carpenter loves doing that kind of stuff. what did you think about like the other part that bothered me was like the drifter who sees them was like, you guys, you should have you should have dressed up. And he just willingly takes them to every part of the underground,

Laramy: Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Williams: you know, shows them everything. And I'm like, like, did were you in it from the beginning already? Like, did you just get joined? And how did you just join has all this access? But I don't think I fully understood the whole transporting back and forth part. And maybe I was just kind of zoning out at that part.

Laramy: Yeah, 'cause when 'cause when Nada is playing with the the watch, they make it look like a portal opens up in the ground.

Tim Williams: Right, right.

Laramy: But yet the two times we actually see it, the person just disappears. Like there is no drops through a portal or anything. The person yeah,

Tim Williams: Right, right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laramy: so that that that didn't make a lot of sense. I think the guy I do think that they maybe captured him when they raided the place and they maybe just

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: like they I don't know if you'd say brainwashed, but they pretty much like forced

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: him into, you know, this is

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: this is this is the deal. Like we'll give you all of this if you become our, you know, slave or whatever he was. So I don't know. I mean it's the same thing with her. Like

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: it the fact that she ends up one of them. No, not not an alien, but like like the drifter was, where

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah, an ally. Yeah.

Laramy: she yeah, she's a human ally. It's kind of that same idea because you have the the beginning and you kinda want to question after all of that, like, was she planted? Like was she supposed to be there? But then the part where she shows up with the resistance, she did that not knowing he would end up with the resistance.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Laramy: And so I yeah, some of that is a a little confusing as to like what happened 'cause I don't know, we watched the movie, it looks like it only takes place over the course of maybe two or three days.

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Laramy: So yeah, I don't know. Although he does get a week's worth of wage, so

Tim Williams: Right, true. True, true. All right, well, let's jump into some trivia. Maybe we'll think of some other scenes as we're going through this. But I did notice in one of the scenes that Roddy Piper's wearing a wedding ring. And I was like,

Laramy: Yes.

Tim Williams: was that there the whole time? But Roddy Piper, being a married man at the time of filming, refused to take his wedding band off. And that's why in several scenes you can actually see him with a wedding ring on, but he never mentions a wife or anything

Laramy: Yeah.

Tim Williams: in the movie.

Laramy: It was actually in the fight scene. I saw it in the fight scene. Mm-hmm.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it's when there's one, yeah, when he's laying on the ground, he kind of looks up. That's when I saw it. Yeah, yeah.

Laramy: Yep, goes to pick himself up, I saw. Yeah.

Tim Williams: for years after the film's release, and even on the movie's DVD commentary, Roddy Piper maintained the film was based on an actual incident, 1950s, in which a company manufactured a TV that planted subliminal messages in women's brains, instructing them to make extravagant purchases. Piper was unaware of the documentary, quote unquote documentary he had seen, the Bronswick Affair. in nineteen seventy eight was in fact a comedy short. So it was not real.

Laramy: That's funny.

Tim Williams: And then I didn't have much trivialness either, but I'm sure you noticed this. But the communicators used by the guards near the end

Laramy: Yes.

Tim Williams: is also the PKE meter used in Ghostbusters

Laramy: From Ghostbusters.

Tim Williams: and Suburban Commando, if you saw that movie as well.

Laramy: Yep. I did

Tim Williams: So yeah.

Laramy: notice that.

Tim Williams: Yeah. I like most of the trivia that I found was all stuff that was like in the commentary and it was really more just like inside jokes or things that Carpenter and Pi Roddy Piper kind of talked about in the in the movie.

Laramy: Yeah. 'Cause I know like during the fight scene, like some I don't know if it was Carpenter or somebody, but they they said I want to see these three wrestling moves.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: And so that's why there's, you know, like the suplex and the the backbody drop and all those

Tim Williams: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Laramy: actually happen in the the fight scene.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. All right, well, let's talk about Box Office. So this was originally scheduled for an October 21st, 1988 release date, but the film was

Laramy: Okay.

Tim Williams: moved to November in order to avoid competition with Halloween 4, The Return of Michael Myers. Because of course, John Carpenter would be the producer and co-writer of the first three Halloween films, but Halloween four was the first in the series that was made entirely without his involvement. Another reason to move the release to November was to capitalize on the November eighth presidential election in tandem with this so this film social commentary. So it did release,

Laramy: Pretty clever.

Tim Williams: yeah, it did release on November 4th, 1988. It debuted at number one at the box office, grossing 4.8 million dollars during its opening weekend. It spent two weeks in the top 10 and then pretty much disappeared from the box office after that. So it didn't didn't have the legs to stay long. But definitely Once again, like most of the what we consider cult classics movies that we loved as kids, it was huge on cable, it was huge on VHS. So All right, now it's time to take a look at how well this 80s flick holds up today. It's the rewatchability and nostalgia meter. It's our way of measuring how enjoyable a movie is for repeat viewings, along with the waves and nostalgia it brings. Here's how it works: it's a one to ten scale. Any number between one and ten will do, but here are a few parameters to help you decide. If you give it a number one, it's at the bottom, meaning I saw it once and that was enough. In the middle is a five, means it's a good rewatch every couple of years. And number 10. i at the top of the meter is highly rewatchable and full of nostalgia. So Laramie, where does they live rank for you on the rewatchability nostalgia meter?

Laramy: considering I have not watched it in a few years, you know, it's not gonna get extremely high, but I do think it has re-watchability. I think it it 100%

Tim Williams: yeah. Mm-hmm.

Laramy: has re-watchability. So I'm probably gonna meet it somewhere in between a five and a ten, and I'll probably give it a seven. Yeah, I think a seven's a good spot for it.

Tim Williams: Seven is where I was going to put it. And it's this the nostalgia gives a couple of extra notches for me because I do

Laramy: Yes.

Tim Williams: have fond memories of this movie. I remember watching it for the first time with my friend Derek. I remember watching it many times after that. It did kind of like disappear from my my from my memory for a couple of maybe a decade or two. But then once it came back, it's like it's one that I I, you know, I'm I don't think it's gonna be one I'm gonna watch every year, but it is one to kind of pull out every couple of years and and rewatch, especially if you know, we run into somebody like a lot of movies talking about, somebody that's never seen it before, like know that line but don't know what it's from. It'd be fun to kind of sit down and watch it with them. And it was fun today, watch it with Tyra and get her her responses to it. So but it what

Laramy: Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Williams: it what was Bethany's final thoughts when it was over?

Laramy: she she liked she thought the short story did a better job at just getting to the point

Tim Williams: Right, right.

Laramy: and being that that that commentary on

Tim Williams: Yeah.

Laramy: on economics and consumerism and all

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: that. She she she didn't dislike it, but you know, she was like, It's all right.

Tim Williams: Yeah. And it's only an hour and thirty-seven minutes. So it's not like it's that long a movie. And it, you know, the beginning is a little slow before it kind of gets into what

Laramy: True.

Tim Williams: the story is. But I did love that it gave definitely gave that western feel. Like even the music was very much, you know, contemporary western. Here's the drifter coming into a town, realizing there's something, you know, nefarious going on. So I did I did like that kind of motif through the movie. When there's a lot of walking of him just you know him walking around and stuff. So I just think that was cool, but yeah. So sevens all around, for Laramie and I. But you at home, let us know where you think they live should rank on the rewatchability nostalgia meter. You can send us an email, send us a message on social media, or drop us a comment right here on YouTube. Well, Laramie, I appreciate you joining me for this episode. Glad we finally got around to doing it. So it's spooky season, what you got going on over at moving panels for the month of October.

Laramy: So we are focusing a little bit in on the old EC comics. So that's where Tales from the Crypt came from.

Tim Williams: yeah, nice.

Laramy: Yeah, and we are going to cover the 1972 Tales from the

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: Crypt movie. In case people didn't know that there was a Tales from the Crypt. Yeah. Yeah. Of

Tim Williams: I was was not aware of a seventies Tales from the Crip movie, but yeah.

Laramy: course the comic has existed since the 50s. and then they yeah, they made, they took Five? Is it five? Now I can't even remember. It's either four or five stories straight out of the EC comics.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: Tales from the Crypt, The Haunt of Fear, and I forgot the name of the third horror comic

Tim Williams: Ha ha.

Laramy: that EC has, but they they took stories straight out of those. Those were anthology comics, just like you know the the show kind of is. and they made a movie in 1972, and James Brooks and I are gonna cover that, as well as a one-shot talking about. kind of the the the legacy that E C comics has had on not only comics but other

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: other forms of entertainment. So yep.

Tim Williams: Gotcha. And because we're in spooky season, the King Size should have an episode coming up as well.

Laramy: Correct. And you you know all about that because you're you're you're the you're gonna be in it. We're we're gonna talk about Pet Cemetery.

Tim Williams: I'm gonna be in it. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that one.

Laramy: yeah, we're gonna go ahead and we're gonna do it like we did Carrie. We're gonna go ahead and cover both versions of the movie.

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: we'll also talk about the sequel and the prequel that I think some people don't even know exists. So

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: but there is a prequel called Pet Cemetery Bloodlines. So

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: we will go ahead and just since they're all they're so The two movies are so similar

Tim Williams: Mm-hmm.

Laramy: and the sequel's not based off of anything. It was just a sequel to a to the movie. And the prequel actually takes a part of the novel and expands on it. So

Tim Williams: Right, right, right.

Laramy: so yeah, we're gonna we're gonna cover it all.

Tim Williams: Nice. Well, definitely check those out this month and check out any of Laramie's previous episodes. Always good to have him on the show. So thanks for joining us. We're going to go ahead and wrap this one up. if we sparked a memory or helped you rediscover a classic a day, please head over to Apple Podcast and leave us a five-star review. It truly helps the show reach more fans like you. Make sure you're always in the loop for our next deep dive. Hit that follow or subscribe button. And if you want to help keep the show running, consider becoming a partner at buymeacoffee.com. For more 80s goodness, our digital headquarters is always open at 80sflickflashback.com. And while you're there, check out our tea public store for original designs and movie-inspired merch that I have you looking like a 1980s icon. All right, Laramie, thanks for joining. Thanks everybody for listening for 80s flick flashback. I'm Tim Williams. Mama don't like tattletales.